[Fresh Ink] Zinn: US 'In Need of Rebellion'

[Richard Menec]

Zinn: US 'In Need of Rebellion'

Al Jazeera speaks to Howard Zinn, the author, American historian, social 
critic and activist, about how the Iraq war damaged attitudes towards the US 
and why the US "empire" is close to collapse.

AlJazeera.net - September 8, 2008
<http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/09/20089814415795791.html>

Commondreams.org - September 9, 2008
<http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/09-0>


Q: Where is the United States heading in terms of world power and influence?

HZ: America has been heading - for some time, and is heading right now - 
toward less and less world power, less and less influence. Obviously, since 
the war in Iraq, the rest of the world has fallen away from the United 
States, and if American foreign policy continues in the way it has been - 
that is aggressive and violent and uncaring about the feelings and thoughts 
of other people - then the influence of the United States is going to 
decline more and more.

This is an empire which is on the one hand the most powerful empire that 
ever existed; on the other hand an empire that is crumbling - an empire that 
has no future ... because the rest of the world is alienated and simply 
because this empire is top-heavy with military commitments, with bases 
around the world, with the exhaustion of its own resources at home.

[This is] leading to more and more discontent and home, so I think the 
American empire will go the way of other empires and I think it is on its 
way now.

Q: Is there any hope the US will change its approach to the rest of the 
world?

HZ: If there is any hope, the hope lies in the American people. [It] lies in 
American people becoming resentful enough and indignant enough over what has 
happened to their country, over the loss of dignity in the world, over the 
starving of human resources in the United States, the starving of education 
and health, the takeover of the political mechanism by corporate power and 
the result this has on the everyday lives of the American people.

[There is also] the higher and higher food prices, the more and more 
insecurity, the sending of the young people to war.

I think all of this may very well build up into a movement of rebellion.

We have seen movements of rebellion in the past: The labour movement, the 
civil rights movement, the movement against the war in Vietnam.

I think we may well see, if the United States keeps heading in the same 
direction, a new popular movement. That is the only hope for the United 
States.

Q: How did the US get to this point?

HZ: Well, we got to this point because ... I suppose the American people 
have allowed it to get it to this point because there were enough Americans 
who were satisfied with their lives, just enough.

Of course, many Americans were not, that is why half of the population 
doesn't vote, they're alienated.

But there are just enough Americans who have been satisfied, you might say 
getting some of the "goodies" of the empire, just some of them, just enough 
people satisfied to support the system, so we got this way because of the 
ability of the system to maintain itself by satisfying just enough of the 
population to keep its legitimacy.

And I think that era is coming to an end.

Q: What should the world know about the United States?

HZ: What I find many people in the rest of the world don't know is that 
there is an opposition in the United States. Very often, people in the rest 
of the world think that Bush is popular, they think 'oh, he was elected 
twice', they don't understand the corruption of the American political 
system which enabled Bush to win twice.

They don't understand the basic undemocratic nature of the American 
political system in which all power is concentrated within two parties which 
are not very far from one another and people cannot easily tell the 
difference.

So I think we are in a situation where we are going to need some very 
fundamental changes in American society if the American people are going to 
be finally satisfied with the kind of society we have.

Q: Do you think the US can recover from its current position?

HZ: Well, I am hoping for a recovery process. I mean, so far we haven't seen 
it.

You asked about what the people of the rest of the world don't know about 
the United States, and as I said, they don't know that there is an 
opposition.

There always has been an opposition, but the opposition has always been 
either crushed or quieted, kept in the shadows, marginalised so their voices 
are not heard.

People in the rest of the world hear the voices of the American leaders.

They do not hear the voices of the people all over this country who do not 
like the American leaders who want different policies.

I think also, people in the rest of the world should know that what they see 
in Iraq now is really a continuation of a long, long term of American 
imperial expansion in the world.

I think ... a lot of people in the world think that this war in Iraq is an 
aberration, that before this the United States was a benign power.

It has never been a benign power, from the very first, from the American 
Revolution, from the taking-over of Indian land, from the Mexican war, the 
Spanish-American war.

It is embarrassing to say, but we have a long history in this country of 
violent expansion and I think not only do most people in other countries 
[not] know this, most Americans don't know this.

Q: Is there a way for this to improve?

HZ: Well you know, whatever hope there is lies in that large number of 
Americans who are decent, who don't want to go to war, who don't want to 
kill other people.

It is hard to see that hope because these Americans who feel that way have 
been shut out of the communications system, so their voices are not heard, 
they are not seen on the television screen, but they exist.

I have gone through, in my life, a number of social movements and I have 
seen how at the very beginning of these social movements or just before 
these social movements develop, there didn't seem to be any hope.

I lived in the [US] south for seven years, in the years of the civil rights 
movements, and it didn't seem that there was any hope, but there was hope 
under the surface.

And when people organised, and when people began to act, when people began 
to work together, people began to take risks, people began to oppose the 
establishment, people began to commit civil disobedience.

Well, then that hope became manifest ... it actually turned into change.

Q: Do you think there is a way out of this and for the future influence of 
the US on the world to be a positive one?

HZ: Well, you know for the United States to begin to be a positive influence 
in the world we are going to have to have a new political leadership that is 
sensitive to the needs of the American people, and those needs do not 
include war and aggression.

[It must also be] sensitive to the needs of people in other parts of the 
world, sensitive enough to know that American resources, instead of being 
devoted to war, should be devoted to helping people who are suffering.

You've got earthquakes and natural disasters all over the world, but the 
people in the United States have been in the same position as people in 
other countries.

The natural disasters here [also] brought little positive reaction - look at 
[Hurricane] Katrina.

The people in this country, the poor people especially and the people of 
colour especially, have been as much victims of American power as people in 
other countries.

Q: Can you give us an overall scope of everything we talked about - the 
power and influence of the United States?

HZ: The power and influence of the United States has declined rapidly since 
the war in Iraq because American power, as it has been exercised in the 
world historically, has been exposed more to the rest of the world in this 
situation and in other situations.

So the US influence is declining, its power is declining.

However strong a military machine it is, power does not ultimately depend on 
a military machine. So power is declining.

Ultimately power rests on the moral legitimacy of a system and the United 
States has been losing moral legitimacy.

My hope is that the American people will rouse themselves and change this 
situation, for the benefit of themselves and for the benefit of the rest of 
the world.

[Howard Zinn is the author of, most notably, A People's History of the 
United States, a National-Book-Award- nominated text that investigates US 
history from the standpoint of the oppressed. Other books by Zinn include 
Declarations of Independence: Cross-Examining American Ideology and his 1995 
autobiography, You Can't be Neutral on a Moving Train.]

c 2008 Aljazeera.net/English

==============
Fresh Ink is an alternative news service
and sister project of Booksinternationale.com.
Join us! https://booksinternationale.info/mailman/listinfo/freshink
==============